Interview with Jen McGrath
Jen’s Advice to Writers: Write, Read, and Listen to the Incredible Community of Writers in New Brunswick.
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Summary
Jenna Morton and Jennifer McGrath discuss the importance of embracing creative flexibility in writing, encouraging listeners to explore different genres and styles of writing without feeling guilty and taking advantage of the generous writing community in our region.. Jen stresses the value of not letting ego get in the way of creativity and exploring different sandboxes to foster more creativity.
They talk about the significance of children's literature in fostering creativity, processing the world, and addressing complex issues through shared experiences. They highlight the importance of relatable characters, local settings, and the emotional impact of stories on young readers, with Jen emphasising the value of landscape and nature in her own writing. Jen offers some great resources and experiences which have helped her in her own career, and encourages other regional writers to start by writing - in every genre and at every opportunity - to grow their skills and confidence.
Links and Citations
Transcript
Jen: The truth of it is that if you're a writer, if you're a storyteller, you have to write and you have to tell the stories. Make them for yourself; tell them for yourself. So don't worry too too much about who's going to read it down the road. When you start worrying, that's when the writer's block happens. So worry about the art; worry about the craft first. Make something that gives you joy.
Tosh: The voices of New Brunswick writers are the heart of WordCraft, a podcast aimed at creating community through words. WordCraft is a creation of the Writers' Federation of New Brunswick, a nonprofit organisation that helps New Brunswick writers to write, acquire skills, and showcase their talents to the world. The show is hosted and produced by Jenna Morton with technical production by Tosh Taylor. The WFNB acknowledges that the land on which we live, work and gather is the traditional unceded territory of the Wolastoqiyik and Miꞌkmaw peoples. And we honour the spirit of our ancestors' treaties of peace and friendship. We acknowledge the support of the Canada Council for the Arts.
Jenna: A love of words is often rooted in us before we even perfect our ability to speak. Children's stories hold a special place in the world of literature, and New Brunswick has its share of incredible writers in this genre. One of these is the award winning Jennifer McGrath. Jennifer is the author of the young adult books, Chocolate River Rescue and White Cave Escape. She also wrote Gadzooks the Christmas Goose, The Snow Knows, and Pugs Cause Traffic Jams. Welcome to WordCraft, Jen.
Jen: Thank you, Jenna. It is my pleasure to be here today.
Jenna: I'm so excited to have this conversation about your craft and your journey in writing, and I'd love for us to start if you can share: was there one moment where you went, "I want to grow up to be a writer. That's the job I want!" Did it start with something like that for you or start somehow else on this journey?
Jen: Well, okay, so when I was in grade two...grade two was the first book that I remember making. And it was a hand drawn stapled book about a teddy bear with a wishing stick. Go figure, I still remember that. Really, as long as I can remember, I've wanted to tell stories. I don't know why. I escaped reality - I don't know - I just always lived in the world of imagination. And it was just something I just always knew I would do, I think. And I was very, very fortunate to come from a household where stories and books were a big part of our lives. We were always being read aloud to, and even my sisters and I - we read aloud to each other and made up stories on our own as well. So it was just [that] storytelling was always part of our everyday. So I don't know if there was one moment; it just always was.
Jenna: At what point, did you start to make that transition from, "This is just who I am. I tell stories, I love stories," to actually pursuing it as a career as a published author.
Jen: When I was in university, I knew that I wanted to study English literature. And I knew very early on that I was particularly interested in literature for young people and literature for children. And this was before - because I'm ageing myself now - but it was before there were many children's literature programs or courses offered at the university level. It was still a relatively new field of academic study in that sense. And I do remember telling one of my advisors at my undergrad level that I wanted to go on and study young adult literature. And I remember that for the head tilt: "You want to do what now?" After I went that route - I did go the academic route for a while and learned a tremendous amount - but I realised at the end of the day that I really wanted to be on the creater end of things rather than the critical end of things. And I wanted to make stories so that's where I put my focus after I graduated.
Jenna: I love that. I think it's so fundamental and important to have good quality children's stories and for so long and so often people overlook that stuff but like you said, from the time you were young, stories mattered and that was what sparked your love of writing and reading. And if we don't have people who put that effort into children's books, we don't end up with adults doing it either.
Jen: Oh, absolutely. For me, it's so foundational to everything else. It's a way of...it's how you process the world, but it's also a sanctuary. And I always tell this to everyone. I say, "Children's books are for everyone; they're for all ages" They're art, they're poetry, they're this perfect intersection of emotion distilled, and how we view the world, how we interact with the world, how we process the world - just distilled down into this really potent, wonderful thing we call children's literature. They deal with sometimes really complex issues. And other times, it's just about perception and feeling, and there's...an intimacy, I guess, to children's books, especially if they're a read aloud experience. So there's that shared connection, and I really think that is probably at the root of a lot of my motivation for writing in this particular category. Because I always think of it as that shared experience, that way of experiencing the world, or this moment, or this little journey into the imagination. So yeah!
Jenna: I wanted to ask you about that, because you went from writing books that are geared to slightly older children, so like, you know, kind of late elementary into middle school, to now writing books that are more focused on a younger crowd that is likely having it read to them. And I wanted to know a little bit about that transition and how that came about.
Jen: To start - my earliest endeavours, when I was just sort of beginning to learn my craft - my earliest endeavours were the picture book format. And I started sending them out to publishers, and I got lots of polite rejections, and that was fine. *chuckles* And then I had a wonderful editor, call me back on one of my picture book submissions, and she said, this was really - she really enjoyed it. However, it wasn't what she needed. She wasn't looking for a picture book, but did I have any books for young readers, any chapter books for young readers, and I was like, "Let me call you back in an hour." Because I mean an editor called me on the phone. So you don't say no! So I went down, and I wrote a pitch for what became Chocolate River Rescue. And that book actually was a perfect fit for me at that time, because my own children were that age level. They were the age where one was just starting to become an independent reader. The other one was still listening to read alouds that were a little bit longer. So we really were in our household in that storytelling space, which made it very much easier for me to find that voice and find that pitch and pacing for that particular story. Although I really thought when I was writing it that nobody outside of my own family would read that story. I'm still astonished! *laughter*
Jenna: Talk a little bit about what happened for people that weren't following your journey at the time. A lot has happened with that book that just kind of was Oops! in a way.
Jen: Yes! Well, yes. It far exceeded. It went much further than I ever imagined it would. I thought it might have a very limited, very local Greater Moncton readership at most, and for some reason that little book has travelled a long way. And that's, it's still being read in schools and classrooms. And it's almost, you know, so many years later that's just - for a little local book - I'm still astonished.
Jenna: But I think it is because it's so relatable - because it's based on something that happened. And I know, personally for me, it's been a fantastic tool in our family, to be able to have something local to get my children to read that they can say, "Oh, yeah! No, our place is worth writing about." And I wondered if you could reflect a bit on that, because most of your published works are very New Brunswick based and even those that aren't, still have a real sense of community. The that relationship to where we live,
Jen: Well, I'm so happy to hear that your own family enjoyed that book. And it comes down to the fact that young readers, they like to see themselves reflected in stories. They need to see themselves reflected in stories. And that's why, you know, it's so important to have so many voices, and storytellers in this canon of children's books that we're building, and Canada is very good at that. As far as community and a sense of place, everybody has their writing process. My stories - they always sort of start or originate from a sense of place. Landscape, and that connection to the landscape for me comes first and the story evolves out of that. And I always tell people too with Chocolate River Rescue that it's inspired by and not based on. So it's inspired by the situation of the Petitcodiac River and young people getting stranded on an ice flow. And it does follow very closely some events that happened on the river, as you know, but I took that situation, and the characters were created out of my imagination. They were younger than some of the historical events that happened on that river. And it's like - well, what if I take these characters who are in turn inspired by kids I grew up with in the area, friends of my own children who are that age and they turned into these created characters who kind of went their own way and made their own decisions and made their own choices in this particular scenario. And I just, you know, as the writer, I just tried to keep up with how that story unfolded. So it was a really good learning process for me. And probably I learned a lot as a young writer through that process. I learned a lot about the incredible freedom that being a fiction writer is and it was kind of a revelation to me that happened kind of late in the process, actually. It was a revelation to me that I could fictionalise this scenario, even though there were actual scenarios that mirrored it very, very closely,
Jenna: I feel that very deeply. I've had that same kind of starting to have that same journey with reading going, "Oh!" Because my background was in journalism, and it was very much factual. And for me to think creatively, it's a big shift, when you start to realise that you do have that power. *laughing agreement* Can you talk a little bit about shifting from writing young adult chapter books...and how you come up with a plot and a plan for that, to the books that you've been writing recently that are almost more poetry.
Jen: Picture Book writing has a special place in my heart, and it kind of is for now my go-to medium. Those stories for me - landscape, and nature is an important aspect of that - they tend to come from an emotional place as well, these stories. Which makes sense, because if you're writing for that very young target age group, emotion is first: emotion and that immediate experience of the world. So that's where those stories kind of grow out of, I just love them. *chuckles* There's something about there's something so potent about the picture book, because there are so few words, and that emotion and that immediacy, and that intimacy, and that experience of the world is so distilled, and it's so potent. And you end up with a very few, sparse number of words on the page. And this very powerful emotion, that's about. And it's magic. It's magic! It's art. And when you have that interplay with the illustrator and the art, it's just...there's so many layers. There's so many levels to play with there, so it's such a rewarding thing.
Jenna: You can see that come through in the beauty of the books and listening to them as well as looking at them. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about some of the challenges along the way for people who are listening who haven't had an editor call them back or even respond to their pitch. What are some of the things that kept you going in those times when things didn't seem like they were going to come together.
Jen: I think the best thing is that, well the truth of it is that if you're a writer, if you're a storyteller, you have to write, and you have to tell the stories. Make them for yourself; tell them for yourself. So don't worry too too much about who's going to read it down the road. When you start worrying, that's when the writer's block happens. *chuckle* So worry about the art; worry about the craft first. Make something that gives you joy. And that's what I would tell people. Always be learning, always be open to new ways of doing things, new styles to explore. But at the end of the day, write what makes you happy. Write what you need to write in the moment. Picture books, in particular, for me, I think, are almost a form of meditation. So if I'm outside, if I'm in the woods, for example, and I experience that - I just want to connect - and they're my way of connecting with the world. And what happens when you connect very deeply with something, in my experience, other people connect with it too. So they become a little bit of a bridge between you and the world - and other people, which is another wonderful thing.
Jenna: Yeah, that is lovely. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about maybe concrete resources or opportunities that you've experienced, or that you would suggest for other people, if they're coming up and they're having those moments of writer's block or they're trying to find their place in the world of writing. What are some of the things that have helped you or that you think would help others?
Jen: Other writers? Absolutely. And we are so fortunate where we are in New Brunswick and Atlantic Canada, in particular, because our writer network is so warm, and so generous in their knowledge and their insights and their support, and in their encouragement, and I absolutely 100% would not be where I am in my career today, without that network. In particular, the Writers' Federation of New Brunswick. I think probably one of the most pivotal points in my career as far as in my creative writing career, would be the Writers in the School Program - the WiSP program. And at that point, I was writing a lot of poetry for kids. I was writing a lot of short stories. I was going into our local schools and my kids' schools, and just doing these presentations as a parent volunteer. And I received a lot of encouragement from Ginny Hill, who's the coordinator of Writers in the Schools, and she was probably one of my...my first fan, maybe? Certainly my first you know, she really gave me the push to keep going and the validation that what I was doing was good and a value. Yeah! So WiSP was probably one of the most foundational programs for me - for learning my craft, for learning what type of writing connects with children, for being sort of right there in the classroom. Understanding the reactions, understanding what moves kids and when engaged kids, and so that was absolutely foundational to my career, for sure, and my development as an artist, for sure.
Jenna: I love that. I always talk about authors coming into schools as being foundational to how I ended up in journalism. Because when I was in middle school, I loved writing; I knew that I was better at English than I was at science. Even though I was okay at science, I knew it was not something I was passionate about. We had an author from the area come in and give a presentation and read from his book, and [we] had the opportunity to ask questions. I was like, "If someone wants to do this, where should they go?" And he said, "Kings University is a good place to learn writing." So I was in grade seven when I was like, "Okay, I guess that's what I'm gonna do.
Jen: Yes! it's incredible what a single encounter - the impact that a single encounter can have. And I know another one for me that was very impactful and very influential early on, was going to a reading by Sheree Fitch. I took my kids when they were toddlers to a reading at the YMCA. And Sheree was reading some of her books, including, I believe the one she was reading was Sleeping Dragons all Around, that time. And I hung around at the end of the reading and went up and chatted, to ger after and said, "You know what I want to write. I want to do this. What you're doing right now, I want to do this." And, you know, she was always - she remains - an inspirational force for me, and I know for countless other writers. So your writer network is...it's such a wonderful resource, such a wonderful community, and a wealth of knowledge and encouragement and inspiration. And, I mean, for sure, go learn your craft, study it, read the books, read the writing books, take the courses, if you have the opportunity, do the seminars. But I always say [that] probably the most transformational impact on my career has been the inspiration and encouragement and knowledge of other writers. So go out and connect with that community, because especially our local writers' community - our New Brunswick writer community - is so generous and so forthcoming with their knowledge and support.
Jenna: I'd like to kind of wrap things up and stay on that theme of what it means to you to be a New Brunswick author who can make a living here in New Brunswick with this craft.
Jen: Absolutely. I think if you want to, quote unquote, make it as a writer, the first thing you have to do is write. The second thing is I would encourage you to be a jack of all trades. So write a little bit of everything. Write whatever comes your way. Try your hand at different genres and styles. Don't be afraid to stretch those creative muscles. Do the uninteresting jobs too, or do the - again - all the different styles: journalism, communications, corporate. I've done them all. And sometimes the bread and butter writing isn't glamorous. But wow! It really improves your writing chops. So you know, if you have to learn how to write a press release, learn how to write a really good press release. You know what? That will strengthen you as a creative writer as well. So I am a much better writer, because I have also done all the communications writing, I've done marketing writing, I've done government communications, I have done blogs I've done...you know. So be a jack of all trades. It will build your skills. And the other thing...So there's [first] write. The second thing is to read. Read everything as well. But read Canadian. Read your...read regional. Read your local publishers - what they're publishing. Read your fellow writers - what they're writing. Follow all the local awards that are out there, and just read and then listen. *chuckles* Listen to what other writers have to tell you. Learn from their experience. A big part of being a writer too is being able to let your ego go a little bit. Because you can't sort of move forward and evolve until you let some of those things go. There's a flexibility there's...you have to develop an artistic flexibility in order to strengthen those muscles, if that makes any sense at all. So listen to others, learn from their insights. Then, adapt them to your own creative vision and your own creative strengths.
Jenna: I like that - the artistic flexibility that's...you know, we don't always think about conditioning all of the parts of our craft and that's definitely a good phrase I think for us to keep in mind.
Jen: Yeah, and I think I tell people too, or I want to remind people that things are fluid and you might be writing a certain thing right now, at this stage of your life, but who you are as a writer now is going to be very different than who you are as a writer five years from now, or who you were as a writer, five years previously. So because you're informed, obviously, by what's going on in your life, your life experiences and where you are. So be gentle with yourself and your writing. So if you think, "Oh, I need to be writing YA right now." And, but maybe you really want to write picture books. That's okay. Or maybe you feel like you should be writing the great Canadian novel, but you really want to write a script for a graphic novel. Then do that. Write where you are, in the moment, and don't feel guilty about it. Don't write what you think you should. Write where you are, right now, and be proud of that. Be happy with that. Because you can only write from who you are in this moment, and that changes. That's a fluid thing. That's a fluid thing.
Jenna: I love that. I think it's very important for people to hear that and remember that it's okay to not think you're pigeon holed to be "I'm always going to be a crime writer, I'm always going to be a romance writer, I'm always going to be prose versus poetry." Be who you feel like being. Write that.
Jen: Absolutely. And that's...it's fodder for more creativity. And it goes back to that idea we said before: it's creative flexibility. It's motivating; it's energising. So don't be afraid to play in different sandboxes. And sometimes, if a story isn't working for you, you know, because maybe you're just not writing that story in the genre it wants to be written in. So maybe you're writing a picture book, but maybe it really wants to be an early chapter book. So maybe that's the reason that it's not working. Maybe you're trying to write an adult novel, but maybe it's actually a YA, or maybe it's a graphic novel. So don't be afraid. And that's also what it comes back to the idea of don't let your ego become a barrier. So it's like, "Oh, okay, this isn't working." It's not that it's not working; I just haven't found the right medium for it yet. I haven't found the right vehicle for it yet. And then let's, let's change the shape of it.
Jenna: I think that's a great place for us to end our conversation for today. But I'm sure that we will continue this again sometime in the future.
Jen: Oh, I hope we do. I love chatting with you, Jenna.
Jenna: Thank you so much.
Jen: Thank you.
Jenna: Jennifer McGraw is the author of several children's and young adult books, including The Snow Knows which won the Marilyn Baillie Picture Book Prize, and the (NBBA) Alice Kitts Memorial Award for Excellence in Children's Writing. If you'd like to connect with our guests and other writers across genres in New Brunswick, please head to the Writers' Federation of New Brunswick website and join the membership. Your membership includes discounts on professional development sessions, an informative newsletter with writing competitions and more highlights, discounts at retailers and access to a community of like-minded individuals working on their craft here in New Brunswick. You can find details at www.wfnb.ca And don't forget to subscribe and rate this podcast as well. We have two more episodes to come in season one of WordCraft, and we want to make sure you hear them.
Tosh: WordCraft is a project by the nonprofit Writers' Federation of New Brunswick. The show is hosted and produced by Jenna Morton with technical production by Tosh Taylor, we acknowledge the support of the Canada Council for the Arts. The Writers' Federation of New Brunswick acknowledges that the land on which we live work and gather is the traditional unceded territory of the Wolastoqiyik and Miꞌkmaw peoples. We honour the spirit of our ancestors' treaties of peace and friendship.
